Wednesday, April 18, 2012

You Put ASL In Shame!

A friend of mine alerted me of this video.  I'm not sure if his intention was to share the humor or to have me translate the entire video for him.  Unfortunately, it was none of the above.  I went hellbent on being offended.

Go ahead and watch the video before reading furthermore...

No Church In The Wild - A song done in ASL

See?  Naturally, I went to the YouTube account and left my scathing comments.  20 minutes later, new comments popped up.  Where the hell was mine?  OoooOOOoooo, I must have hurt their feelings. *handing a box of tissues*  Another person left comments tellin' them he couldn't understand 'em for squat.  They removed his comments, too.  Snots!

Instantly inspired to write about this.  Like usual, in order to write a story, I need to be pissed off first.  So, these people in this video just earned a spot in my blog.  Congratulations, dorks.

Back to the video.

What the hell was that?!?!

Was that ASL?  *rubbing eyes*  *squinting*  Fuck that, it gave me a headache.  I'm more interested in what's tucked in their pants.  Something's bugling in there.  (Got you look at the video again, didn't I?)

Anyway, these men claimed (strongly emphasis - CLAIMED) that they used ASL to interpret the song. They thought they were cool.  Yes, it's written all over their stupid faces.  -cued cough-  Such a pathetic attempt on their part.

High time to shred their pride.  They did a stinkin' job signing.  Were they really signing?  Or, were they just signaling like those 3rd base coach?   Hey, kids, do me a favor.  Shoot yourselves in the foot.  You would be better off as dancers.

Back to a much more articulated discussion.

First of all, it was not ASL to begin with.  What is it?  Beats me.  Either they were just exercising their arms or they got a clever ASL person trickin' their minds into thinkin' they were 858585 and ended up rakin' their $$$$.  In this video, I only could make out two signs that were clear to my electrifyin' blue eyes and they were 'music' and 'smokin' pot.'  Yeah, you could easily write a music when you're stoned.  Okay, back to the discussion...it's rather offensive to see them callin' their signing ASL when I, myself a native ASL user, could not understand for squat.  So did the others, the native signers. 

Bottom line: They put Koko, the signing gorilla, in shame.

115 comments:

  1. Yeah, I was shocked to see that video. It's so horrible! They butchered ASL very badly. That pisses me off to no end!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Replies
    1. Then I m wondering how you felt about the other music video with actor Johnny Depp and what's-her-name... Makes you wonder who taught them the signs? Do they get any credit? I honestly haven't seen the video you mentioned yet but I am sure it was pretty butchered up.

      Delete
    2. I missed to watch the video. Where its?

      Delete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Bravo!! I was shocked to see it! One of worst video I ever seen!

      Delete
  4. "Some comments are saying some signs are unclear. Hope this helps! (Note: (G) means it's a gestural sign)" as it was under YouTube of "No Church in the Wild". So therefore it is NOT ASL as their excuse is GESTURAL SIGN. Good try, Mark Idiotic Nakhla!

    ReplyDelete
  5. In all honesty, what I'm seeing from them in that video are *gang* signs with some actual ASL signs thrown in. I don't see any glosses like Mark's claiming.

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  6. don't see anything wrong with their video. Music used with sign language can be done in a variety of ways. What they did was understandable to me. Did you see the gloss below the vid? I prefer word for word when it comes to signing videos, what they did was ASL in gloss. When it comes to music and sign language...I prefer word for word in ASL which btw is PSE! Ahh, PSE rules! ;) This is my opinion, so, take it for what it's worth. These dudes rock.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Candy, my tolerance for you is truly at zero level. You managed to come up with a far-fetched claim that you understood the signs. That was blatantly a lie. When I first saw the article on Huffingtonpost.com that mentioned that video clip -- I watched the first time around. I'm like "WTF did they say?" - then 2nd time around, I tried to make an effort to watch the whole thing. Could not get it at all.
      So I asked Dawn and few others for their thoughts -- the consensus is that they do not understand them at all. And conveniently for you to stand & fight the rest, you said you understood them.

      You're so desperate for attention, that's for sure.

      I'm not talking about the glass below the vid -- I'm talking about THEIR ASL signing skills. Not the transcript below -- stop spinning ti around.

      R-

      Delete
    2. Candy.....seriously! Every time I see you leaving the comments in opposite way. I never, never, never see you agree with majority of Deaf bloggers except your little purity group of lapdogs leading by your Massiah!
      Seriously, you need to get lost and stay in your own La-La Land that is so called hearing world.
      I don't believe you do understand those butchered ASL. GET LOST!

      Delete
    3. Candy... I know SEE and PSE along with ASL and have held lengthy conversations with other people in each language/communication mode without misunderstandings.

      And I did not understand the two in the video. They were not using PSE, SEE or ASL. To me, they were babbling with a mixture of ASL signs and gang gestures in a completely nonsensical sequence.

      Delete
  7. Learn to respect opinions, that is all you gotta do!

    I happen to be really into music and let me tell you, there's more than one way to sign music videos. It's hard to explain that to someone who does not hear and/or appreciate music.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How about you respect our opinions first?

      I agree there's more than one way to interpret music. I enjoy music myself, believe it or not. But in English, or any other spoken language, you don't just spit out words without any grammar. Even rap lyrics has some grammar, albeit bad grammar...

      Why should having absolutely no grammatical structure and violating every rule of the language be acceptable when it comes to ASL? The only explanation I can think of is: Lack of respect for our language.

      Delete
    2. How did I not respect Dawn's opinion, deafpundit? I'd like to see your response on this. I disagreed and stated my opinion without disrespecting Dawn. This should be very interesting.

      Delete
    3. You came in here and demanded that we respect your opinion, because we're disagreeing with you. So I'm returning the demand.

      Delete
    4. It's okay if you guys are disagreeing with me. That is not an issue. You're blind. Open your eyes.

      Delete
    5. I'm blind to what? To your baiting? :P

      Delete
    6. ha, you're umm blind to what is obvious. I don't bait people. Your dislike of me is blinding you from seeing the truth. It's okay. That's obvious too. I wonder if Ridor's and Insane Misha's response would be the same if it wasn't ME that commented, ya know? Most likely, yes.

      Delete
    7. Candy:
      I can show you some respect. How about I hack your computer and you can shut your mouth about PSE?!?!? Just focus on your husband funeral and be quiet for weeks!


      Anon

      Delete
  8. Ridor, I copied and pasted the gloss they had under their video, put it next to the video so I can watch the signs/hear the words and read the gloss (includes some gestural signs too) and found that it's okay, these signs matched the gloss.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. BULLSHIT! You've always been an attention whore, period. Opinion, my ass!

      Delete
    2. Candy, please stop!

      Take a deep breath and listen to us.

      Don't try to fool yourself thinking that you understand this music video.

      I agree with DeafPundit that you are a big TROLL causing so much trouble..

      Mark, all the comments speak volumes to you except for Candy. Listen to all of the comments, they are being honest and trying to tell you the truth. Take this as a good advice and do better next time.

      Delete
  9. And, it matched the lyrics used in the video. I think they did a great job, I'm sure it was hard to do for them. Especially when they're doing a song by Kanye West and Jay-Z! It's not easy, you know how the beat is for that song? It's quite fast.

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  10. Dawn, I guess I can't comment here without getting attacked. Geez. Music is my thing and I enjoyed your blog. It's really ridiculous when someone can't just respect opinions that are different from theirs. Ciao.

    ReplyDelete
  11. wow, it's interesting..this is going to be my last comment here. I am a native ASL user. Very native. However I sign in various ways depending on the situation. I can understand the signs they're using which matches the lyrics sung and the gloss, with the exception of the gestural signs which they have pointed out on their gloss below the video. If you guys disagree with me, that's okay. I respect that. LEARN to RESPECT opinions that do not match your own. You can state why you disagree and that does not mean it is disrespecting or anything like that. Really. I think one day I'm gonna have a ball meeting some of you. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nope, you haven't respect our opinions at all yet you demand us respect yours.
      So screw off....
      Ciao

      Delete
  12. No Church In the Wild video is an insult and embarassment to our wonderful deaf community. As I watched the video, the way it looks like they are making fun of us. So this time I am making fun of them. Their ASL is totally gestured and the look of them, boy they must be doing shitload of cracks.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I deleted your comments because they were based on blatantly incorrect information, not because I was offended by them. Repeatedly, I was told "this is not ASL." If it's not ASL then what else is it? There are gestural signs (maybe about 6 of them in the whole video) and the rest are ASL signs in correct grammatical structure. I even spent the last 40 minutes putting in the captions to prove it.

    I am in no way a native signer. I've taken a few years of ASL classes from a wonderful professor. Then I started making these videos. I never have, and never will claim to, have more knowledge and experience regarding ASL and deaf culture. That is never going to be true, regardless of how many years I study ASL.

    You have every right to have your opinions. You may hate my video and that's okay too. I made it this way and I like it this way. And I'll continue to make videos this way. I'm sorry you don't like them. But to bash them in saying that it's not ASL, and that it's "garbage" and use other distasteful language, that I'm not okay with.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Flash news....mixing gestures and ASL, I'm NOT okay with! That is an insult! You have earned ZERO respect from us.

      Delete
    2. Mark: Flash news! You cannot invent the gestures & incorporate it in ASL. When you do that, you cheapen our sign language. Your vlogs are filled with gibberish signs which I could NOT figure it out -- and you had the audacity to tell me to read the gloss as if we were stupid to understand the signs in 1st place.

      Excuse me, Mark, you banned me from leaving on your youtube after I made it clear that I do not regard your ASL music as an authentic one at all. You have no respect for Deaf people, its culture & its language. You only want to make $$ off from our ASL on vlogs -- shame on you. I'm relieved that the majority of the community sneered at you already. Gina Sutton (Candy & Gamaswanderings are the same individual) are not well liked all over the communities.

      Mark, you had the luxury of leaving a comment on Dawn to defend your position and yet you banned, me and Dawn from leaving on yours. Double standards, you fucktard hearie.

      R-

      Delete
    3. The captions are based on the verbal English lyrics, not the signing. So the captioning thing is irrelevant.

      The bottom line is, Mark... there is only ONE person so far that claims to understands your signing and she is a hard of hearing person who disagrees with the Deaf Community on almost every single topic. There's a word for that.. and it rhymes with roll... :P

      I am fully confident that if HuffPo or other media outlets had an expert come in to assess your video on whether it had ASL or not, they would say no, it does not contain ASL. You may sign a few ASL signs, but you do not follow the grammatical structure in any shape or form.

      It's babble. And I think I see some gang signs in there too.

      And what is not cool, is you trying to pass this off as ASL, when it is NOT! You wouldn't dare think of doing this to other languages. Why ASL? Why is there so much disrespect against ASL?

      Delete
  14. Candy, you re lying once again. You contend that you're into music, here is a hint: There are many Deaf people who are into music as well. And so far, many do not recognize the so-called ASL performers to be using real ASL at all.

    You just admit that yes, Mark added some gestures to ASL. You proved our point -- once one person try to include a gesture that is not "recognized" by Deaf people, it is NOT ASL at all.

    What Mark is doing -- he's trying to profit off from these vlogs by using ASL so that he can get some cash from google.

    Once again, Gina, you lack the respect for others including myself for a long time and now you're demanding us to show one for you. Gina: Fuck you.

    And no, if we had a chance to be next to each other, I'll sneer at you and won't have a ball of time with you, bitch.

    R-

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I make no money off of these videos. I do them purely out of enjoyment. I'm sorry you don't like them, but I'm not going to stop making them. If you don't like them, then you can watch other ASL videos. Cool? Glad we agree.

      They may not be "right" to you, but I frankly don't give a damn. I've tried to be as respectful as possible but the same has not been returned to me.

      Thank you for taking the time to even watch my video. The fact that it has created some sort of controversy means I must be doing something right. Not everyone's gonna like it. That's fine by me.

      Delete
    2. Mark,

      I hardly call the use of unreadable forms of language a success in creating controversy.

      If words are understood and it was the words (or the meanings of it) itself that sparked debate, then I would agree that you succeeded in creating controversy.

      How can you claim that sloppy signs (or as you claim gestures) sparks controversy? It doesn't especially if people never understood what you were trying to express in the first place. In this case, people are offering you constructive criticism to clean up the signs to make it "readable" and understood by the viewers.

      Delete
  15. Ridor you can say whatever you want to say, you don't know me and you don't know how well liked I am in my deaf cultured community or not. It doesn't bother me one bit. I can say things about what I know the deaf community feels about you but, I'm not gonna stoop to your level. It's kind of childish, don't you think? You need to stop getting personal with people you don't like. I got your message a long time ago, Ridor, you don't like me. That's okay, no skin off my back.

    To all, I think the video is cool. The signs that are not gestures are signs used by the deaf community. They may not be done in the correct ASL grammar, but hey..it's music.

    This is music and when one uses sign language, it's artistic and creativity comes into play. There's no such thing as having to follow English grammar when one writes lyrics and the same thing applies when one uses sign language in music videos.

    I hope Mark Nakhla continues to make music videos w/ sign language the way he wants to.

    Mark, please do and don't let anyone change the way you do ASL videos. Except maybe to continue to improve on it. Perhaps use "sign languge" instead of ASL because there are all kinds of sign language that is used in the deaf cultured community. Just a suggestion you might want to consider.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Back in the 80's it was common for many deaf who could hear, and who followed music to sign to the lyrics. It was common for many to use signs word for word the way the lyrics was sung. It was cool, and the ASL rule wasn't followed. I've started to noticed a few videos that had more ASL in them and it kind of changed the lyrics. I think it's cool to have all kinds of translation or transliteration of music videos.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Candy,

      You are spinning things as usual.

      I could care less if the signer in the video chose to use exact signed English, ASL, or foreign language for that matter - AS LONG the signing itself is CLEAR enough to follow on its own. If you had to resort to the text version, then it is a failure in itself.

      A lot of people including myself do not view ASL as a gestural language and I personally am offended that Mark would claim that his video was done in ASL and yet say it's gestural in some ways. The title of his video (and the publication in the mass media) is misleading others of what ASL really is.

      In short, the video was a failure in several respects.

      I would not have any objections to the video and to Mark if his signs were clear enough (not having to use text to understand what was said) and not claiming it was done in ASL. It was done in a very very sloppy manner. It needed to be cleaned up.

      Delete
  17. Ridor, it was obvious that he was using gestures. I thought you could read. I have to point out everything? He told you in Youtube that the gloss was below the video and if you read the gloss you will see that the (G)meant gestures. I don't have to admit to anything, it was already stated on youtube for you and myself to read.

    ReplyDelete
  18. This music vlog was very difficult for me to watch... The signs were sloppy and there were no facial expressions to go with signs. Very difficult to understand without the captions..

    If you could do this music vlog again, please ask us to come and help you out with the signs and appropriate facial expressions. Several of us would love to help out and do not be afraid to ask us.. If you want your music vlog to be understood, it is important to have deaf consultants to come out and help. Deafmommy

    ReplyDelete
  19. Mark,

    One more thing -- your vlog is not controversial at all..

    It is because we cannot understand it at all. The signs are not appropriate (hand shape and body language), the video is choppy, the signing is too fast and sloppy and we cannot enjoy watching this video SIMPLY because we cannot understand it at all.

    That is all. You should take this as a positive criticism and do your music video again with deaf consultants. You could even ask deaf people to be involved in your music video as well. Be our friends and respect our ASL and try to work with us.. This way you will earn a lot of respect from us, I guarantee you. There are many deaf people lined up for you to use as a sign language consultant and to act in your music video. Do not be afraid to ask them...

    ReplyDelete
  20. Everyone, especially you, Mark, I'm letting you know that I'll be back to respond to your messages.

    Mark, be in receptive of our messages and make THE CHANGES. Don't let this roll off your shoulders and shrug us off. We are not nice people if you do that, especially that ASL is OUR language, not yours.

    ReplyDelete
  21. this is interesting and yet disturbing to witness. i've checked that 'asl' song and it's barely understandable. i get some by what? lipreading, but not much via their signs.

    but what's disturbing is hearing people and few hoh/deaf ignoring and disrespecting the majority, the culturally deaf people who said they can't understand the signs and that it's not ASL.

    with the other cultures, there are more respect for the native speakers. i don't see any here. would it be because hearing people see deaf people too 'disabled' to be respected?

    hearing people, where is your respect for a linguistic minority proficient in their native language? don't diss them. MZ

    ReplyDelete
  22. I am not here to disagree or agree with anyone here but a thought came into mind that I think should be explored further.

    While i was not able to understand it 100% but I do commend him for at least making an effort. While ASL is a language and I understand that, but there are those that also use ASL as an art, and this is the way I saw this guy doing it, its more like an art than it is like a language in the video. An example of ASL used an an art would be commonly seen in poetry or story telling where there are even signs that are not widely used in ASL.

    For example, 1-10 stories, ABC stories, or stories that use the same "sign" all the way through the entire stories. Those forms of art do not get mocked, yet they are highly respected, then I beg this question, why are you mocking this guy?

    ReplyDelete
  23. you people disgust me. somebody tries to express himself and you react this way? "fucking hearie," "go to hell, fucktard" etc.

    I feel bad for your families that have the "audacity" to cross you....

    ASL is not YOUR language. you are simply USERS of the language. It does not belong to you. PERIOD.

    Mark, keep doing your thing. I think it fucking ROCKS. Very awesome style and I was able to understand about 95% of it without the glosses (I'm hard of hearing myself).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You got it all wrong. We're not users of our languages. That is the most DUMBFUCK statement I ever heard of.
      WE USE OUR NATIVE ASL!!!!
      You're hard of hearing? Obviously you spend too many times by kissing up hearing people's asses.
      Go crawl back in the "hole"!

      Delete
    2. I have to agree with Anonymous's above comment. You guys are incredibly offended at these guys' lack of proper ASL grammar in their videos, yet your grammar in the written English language is less than perfect. Almost every post here (including Dawn's blog entry) had at least one glaring grammatical error.

      I'm sorry that these "hearies" tried to do anything artistic with "your" language. It's a true shame how viciously you all have attacked these young men.
      I'm glad that Mark has not let your comments deter him from continuing to make his videos!

      Delete
    3. HELLO! Hate to burst your bubble. Has it occurred you that English is our SECOND language, NOT first language! ASL is our FIRST and primary language due to the fact it's our NATIVE language.
      GET WITH THE PROGRAM, ASSHAT!

      Delete
    4. Anon,

      Nobody is perfect with their use of language. I don't think anyone is asking Mark to be perfect.

      Sue me if my English isn't perfect. At least it gets my points across and you understand them!

      Mark's signing is HORRIBLE and sloppy. The issue isn't Mark's grammar. It's SLOPPY and unreadable. It's like trying to watch TV with static all over the screen, can you watch TV shows/movies like that? NO! Mark doesn't have to be perfect, but he does need to be clear, sharper, and crisp with his signing. That's ALL!

      Delete
  24. anonymous, thank you for confirming my observations. outsiders can't modify a language of the people without their permission. that's what the deaf people are trying to say. can you let the recent immigrants here butcher your american english and telling you american english don't belong to you? lol i can see how well that'll go, especially in the south-west region of usa. MZ

    ReplyDelete
  25. to the other anonymous, the a-z and 1-10 adhere to the rules of asl. their handshapes and their original are retained, being incorporated through the stories. they aren't made up hazardously, violating all rule of asl as to make it virtually indistinguishable to the native and near-native asl users. i hope that helps. MZ

    ReplyDelete
  26. To those anonymous, besides MZ, you need to STFU and here's ass-dipped pacifiers for you. You have the gall to come here hiding behind your names and in your wildest dreams, thinking about leaving no-where-near-scathing messages here telling me that you believe that Mark did a wonderful job. He's the one of many who is polluting ASL. And, flash news: Yes, ASL is mine. I'm here to defend the truth of the language. Mark is just trying to reign the Kingdom of ASL through music. *scoffs* He stated it was a gestural song. It's more like gibberish to me. Mark, go ahead and make some more like this one and I'll be happy to be your most frequent visitor.

    ReplyDelete
  27. haha dawn, you one big bitch. "ASL kingdom" hahaha you're pathetic. the world isn't about deaf people vs hearing people. you're perpetuating hate, and for that, you too will be hated.

    and if I was Mark, I'd just ban your ass all together. You have no place outside of this website where your opinions will matter. so here, keep on parading your bitchiness all over this site. your ass won't be tolerated elsewhere, bitch.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Candy, you amaze me with your sheer stupidity & lies.

    R-

    ReplyDelete
  29. Mark,

    I do enjoyed at how ye 'edited' the video. However, yer 'attempt' usin' ASL to pretend yer passed off with the music video are truly awful. Then ye biased it by changed into gestural sign and removed mo comment on yer YOUTUBE. Dat's a bad sign to Deaf Communities.
    Yer so-called ASL music videos are like record-scratched to our Deaf's feasible eyes. Would ye put voice-scratched on yer music videos, eh? No fuckin' way, ye sayeth! Mo arse bet ye wouldn't dare. So, PLEASE just upgrade yer sign skill or study other ASL music video yonder youtube. And pay the respect to Deaf communities with our language.

    Tank'eh very much sir!
    Kurt the IRISH chef

    ReplyDelete
  30. a honest question: would you deride native americans for getting upset upon seeing their native language treated poorly and butchered by outsiders? why would it be different for culturally deaf people and their asl? MZ

    ReplyDelete
  31. I agree too that I couldn't understand them at all, I had to read the closed caption to understand them. I even didn't know they signed "God" until I read the CC.

    This one is obviously not a native signer, but at least, I understood him better than I understand them.

    Miley Cyrus - Party in the USA - ASL Song, the youtube user name is CaptainValor

    ReplyDelete
  32. I know I said I would not comment here anymore, except the need to respond to questions directed at me. But, I have to share this. I showed the video to my CODA son, he thought it was cool. I asked him if he understand the signs (words that were signed in the video) and he said, for most, yes but there were some signs he didn't understand, the ones that he did understand,matched the lyrics. Then he asked me if they're deaf, I told him no...these guys are not deaf. He says he thought they were. hmm interesting perspective. he was surprised they are hearing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're kidding, right? Let's be frank here, I knew right away that it was a bunch of hearing people trying to use some signs. There is absolutely NO WAY one could mistook them as Deaf performers.

      At least be honest in your comments.

      Delete
    2. I don't know if it's because I can hear them sing and I could right away see the signs used that matched the lyrics. He's obviously not a fluent signer and I think that is why you all are upset. He's using some of the signs correctly and some in an artistic way and that's no different from how some deaf people sign their songs. It's music. It's not like they're butchering a language, it's music and with lyrics anything goes...they don't always follow English grammar. It's my view and if you don't agree, that's okay. I respect yours.

      Delete
    3. I mean, I can hear the music lyrics being sung. *need my coffee*

      Delete
  33. It's amazing how everyone is bashing this. I'm a native signer and I didn't understand it really until I went and looked up the lyrics. Plenty of words where I couldn't think of an appropriate sign but I admire Mark's effort on this video and I will agree that it's not pure ASL. But what happened to helping others out? Mark probably thinks half of these people commenting are complete ass-pacifiers. It's obvious he is a student but why can't we help out instead of bashing him like he did the deaf community wrong? Reach out and share thoughts without crucifying him. A sad sign of why the deaf community will not get respect from everyone when people continue to bash what they think is right or wrong. Wake up people and work together. Mark, if you read this, keep up the work and just reach out for some help. I would help if I could.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree. If you want respect you have to give it. Using vulgar language and insults usually does not help. I think it is fine to criticize someone else's attempt at using ASL, but it can be done without verbally bashing the person.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous - I'm not crazy about responding to fellas that hides behind the Anonymous itself. However, nobody is criticizing the way Mark signs. Nobody is. We are just saying that we could NOT understand anything that he attempted to sign at all. It was badly signed and finally, Mark admitted that some signs were homemade gestures. But for him to parade his vlog as ASL Music? Don't do that.

      R-

      Delete
    3. (e, oh -- shut the fuck up, girl. I attempted to leave a constructive criticism on Mark's youtube site after viewing it the first time around. I stated that I tried to view his signs but could not understand what he was trying to convey. Mark immediately removed my comment as well as telling me to read the lyrics (He was implying that I was stupid as well). You're right that respect is two-way street, but he started it all. So for once, (e, shut the fuck up when you do not know the whole story from day one.

      R-

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    6. Do you know why I said to shut the fuck up at you? Because you true biz agreed to what Candy said without checking around with the sites AND our comments FIRST. You were quick to agree with her about us being nasty ASL militants when it is not even true in the first place.

      Many of us made it clear to Mark that his production are *not* ASL-oriented, Mark was quick to remove our comments as well as indicating that we "misunderstand" him as well. That's when Candy stepped in and told him not to worry about "us" because we are "ASL extremists".

      Then you left a comment agreeing to Candy - that means one thing: You disrespect me and others.

      That's when the gloves came off. Is that clear, (e?

      R-

      Delete
    7. Where does it say I agreed with Candy? I never mentioned her. I agreed with Anonymous about how we should not just bash this guy. I am more mad at the Huffington Post for not checking their facts. I am surprised that many people have not called them out.

      Delete
    8. You're not allowed to agree with me (e! You'll get bashed! *being sarcastic* Actually, (e, I've always admired your individuality, you think for yourself and you don't follow. Even if you eventually agreed with others, that's cool. That's why I admire you. ;)

      Delete
    9. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    10. Lol. Thanks. And I admire you for voicing your opinions, no matter what others say or how others trash you. You clearly state what you believe in and don't back down simply to please others.

      I don't pick teams or sides like many people do. I never really liked being on teams anyway, even when I was a kid. I like trying to get to know everyone whether I agree with much of their opinions or not.

      Happy Friday!

      Delete
  34. Oh....now that I see that this video was covered by the Huffington Post as an ASL video---I can understand why people would be upset. Yikes. I have not read the article yet. I find it strange they would cover this video, but not some of the amazing(and waaay better)videos I have seen actually made by fluent signers.

    I thought this video was just some random video found on YouTube--I did not realize it was showcased on the Huffington Post as an "ASL" video.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. E) NOW, you see? Geez, you shouldn't have jumped into this foray in the first place. START FIRST to click the link and read and view it. To me at first I thought you flip-flopped which is more annoying as hell.
      Think twice before you open your mouth, so to speak.

      Delete
    2. Well, when I first saw the video, it was on YouTube, which I got directly from this blog post. I thought it was just some video randomly found. I did not know it was featured on Huffington Post, which changes everything. This blog only had the link to the video and did not mention Huffington Post. So I made a mistake. I admitted it and agree with most people here. At least I am willing to try to understand and reasonably discuss this. What else do you want? I guess you would like me to never comment since it annoys you so much. Night.

      Delete
  35. why should the deaf people respect people who don't respect them in the first place? think about it.

    a butchered song covered by national internet site brings righteous outrage among the culturally deaf people. they get scolded by patronizing hearing and small deaf/hoh people embarrassed that the deafies raised a big fuss. how dare they? they should be grateful.

    if anglish gets butchered, there would be a massive outcry among the americans. If the hispanic people in arizona give a babbling and incomprehensible song in 'english' on the national radio, all hell would break loose. no question about that.

    a wonderful example of double standards here. it's ok for hearing people to be angry, but for culturally deaf, no, they can't be angry. they should be ashamed for daring to feel offended at seeing their language butchered on national news.

    it's illuminating to see how deaf culturally people with healthy pride in their native language are being treated here. shame on you for slamming and shaming the culturally deaf people. you aren't treating them as equals,

    to the culturally deaf people, what you are doing is very healthy and affirming. MZ

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    1. Thank you, MZ!!! I couldn't have said it better than you have!

      Delete
  36. MZ, if your comment is directed at me, I am in no way shaming or slamming culturally deaf people for voicing their opinions or getting upset by this video. Now that I see the video is on Huffington Post claiming to be an ASL video, I understand why people are upset. I am upset by it actually, even though I am not a natuve or fluent signer. I think it is ridiculous if the Huffington Post is saying this is ASL. I have not read the article yet, but will soon. But, I do think that if we want to get our points across, we have to do it in a clear and reasonable manner. Only using curse words and screaming is not always effective. But, hell if people want to yell about how this video pisses them off, they should! But, if they want people to listen---they should try a more mature tactic.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. You hadn't read anything -- many Deaf people left comments on Mark's site saying the same thing -- they were not upset at him, they were just saying that they could not understand what Mark & his friend was trying to convey. Many of his signs are homemade signs. Candy (Gina Sutton) said she brought her son to watch. Her son probably also listened to the audio as well. She probably did not turn it off when her son was watching the vlog so it helps.

      Gina is stirring things up by trying to say that it was "asl extremists" that protested this -- nobody was protesting at all. They simply told him that he was unreadable. Come to think of this, we were trying to save his face. But he chose not to set up a dialogue -- he started to delete people's remarks left and right. That's when Candy (Gina) steps in and started to attack us for telling him that what he did was not ASL, it was quite difficult to understand his shit.

      R-

      Delete
  37. May I ask --

    Under the assumption that Mark was genuinely not intending to insult the Deaf community in any way but only to practice and showcase is signing, should he not use YouTube as an outlet altogether? Let's assume he's trying to use YouTube to practice his signing and gain feedback in order to one day gain fluency. Are you arguing that whenever an individual is not fluent in signing, the inadequacies of the signing prove an "embarrassment to the language"?

    As an ASL students for two years, I always feel really uncomfortable signing with native speakers because I fear they will judge my inadequacies. This blog seems to suggest I was correct in my fear.

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    1. I think it's obvious his video wasn't an effort to practice his skills. It's very slickly shot and edited.

      And if he was open to gaining feedback, he would not have made the statements he did in response to our criticisms.

      Delete
    2. Bingo, DeafPundit!

      Anonymous, quit hiding behind that anonymous name. Mark was "genuinely" trying to gain some hits for his butchered ASL music. Why would it pop up on HuffingtonPost.com in the first place? It was not to practice his signing skills, that's for sure.

      R-

      Delete
  38. This is just my opinion. I'm not a fan of using sign language with music. That's like mixing water and oil, per se.

    I prefer to keep it segregated.

    However, that's my opinion.

    As for the video, I wasn't particularly impressed like I was with Natalie Portman (Johnny Depp's style was... not my style tho I'm a fan of his).

    Signmark? Their style is very unique in itself. A singer and signer are actually segregated but were in a perfect sync. However, I did not really like that idea, nevertheless. Just my opinion.

    PSE? Ah, I use that for STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) when ASL isn't quite suitable when it comes to intensive vocabulary (like derivates, integration, boolean algebra and so forth)... but ASL's my prime preference whenever I can and it's fun to use cuz I could use facial animation with that. Am I right (asl version) da-W-nnn ? :)

    Love you, goil even tho it seems you're being hated. Let the haters hate. It's a lot easier for me to caption yer videos as well as doing my homework and spend time with my loved one as opposed to watch that particular video. Ok, dinner time. Til then.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous of 1:37PM of April 19, 2012: I'd like to chime in my 2 cents.

    In my opinion, I believe it would have been wise had Mark first got the feedback from a good ASL specialist before executing the shooting of the video.

    And do not feel the fear of talking to native ASL users. Just do it. I have a tutor who isn't great with ASL, but she's an excellent tutor -- so it's a trade off for me to learn Calculus and for her to learn ASL from me. So take it from me, don't cluster those native ASL signers to be like what you think they are, even tho your concern is warranted. There are dickheads out there who judge people's sign and there are cool people out there who is interested to just have a conversation with you. I got a guy out here who doesn't sign and read sign well... but he's picking it up from me since I'm actually still fast signer with him. He ask me to repeat, and I do but at the same speed for several times. It works. :)

    Patience's the name of the game.

    When you think about it... this video reminds me of a white boy rapping an ebonic language with black-related culture lyrics when that white boy isn't (most likely) black-enculturated. A bit oxymoronic, don't you think? :)

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  40. I'm sharing the link here...that's the true ASL signing song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLLCa__nnKo&feature=player_embedded#!

    Mark needs to understand that he can't sign for squat. Rosa Lee Timm is all time classic when it comes to sign a song in ASL.

    Enough said, naysayers.

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  41. This reminded me of an experience several years ago in Toronto. A dinner theater act was pretending to speak Chinese but was actually making it up. The fake language was funny and apparently accurate because people were chuckling. A Chinese family in the restaurant walked out.

    My table energetically discussed this: was it fair? was it artistic license? was it excusable as satire or parody? (it was supposedly a serious drama with Chinese characters played by non-Chinese actors.) We really didn't arrive at any answers, and felt that the issue of the upset couple was never addressed. Clearly the message of the act was lost on them by ridiculing and excluding them.

    I believe that the drama did not contribute anything because it was 1) an assault on humanity; 2)crossed limits of respect and mimicked an ethnicity; 3) created garbage instead of art by randomly mixing diverse and unrelated elements; and 4)the object was to create a stereotype rather than portray accurately.

    Here a hearing musical co-opted a deaf cultural language for its purposes--perhaps trying to create a dance to go along with the music. But the "dance" was actually an exploited version of ASL with other signs. The language was made inaccurate and unintelligible in the process, similar to the fake Chinese used by pretend-Chinese actors.

    Perhaps it would have been better to create completely new movements to enhance the music than to try to transform a Deaf ASL to a hearing purpose. This tactic came off like a lead balloon as far as the Chinese and the Deaf people were concerned.

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  42. Candy and people who think it is beautiful ASL song, I do see your side and you hope that it is part of deaf culture. it is not. you include some deaf signs, some deaf gestures along with lyric movements into a song that can be appreciated by people WHO CAN HEAR. that is hearing culture through and through. for those with 4 senses including me cannot feel the vibration or receiving any sounds which is the base of the visual expression. all the visual expression without sound reception is baseless and senseless.

    I watched it for 30 seconds, it made no sense to me. i did continue for another 2 minutes, then i turned it off. nobody in this world can convince me that it is 'beautiful' at all.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Well...

    What if a Deaf person decided to use his voice unintelligibly and speaking gibberish language in a music video, then tried to pass it off as an art of music done in spoken English language? Would the hearing community accept this? Somehow I doubt this.

    This is exactly what happened with Mark Nahkla's music video. Nothing against Mark personally, but by claiming it's done in ASL (in gloss or otherwise), he's created something of a major stir within the Deaf community.

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  44. LISTEN UP, MARK!

    If you went into a hispanic community, dressed all gangsta - and speaking choppy and fake Spanish...

    Would you walk out of that neighborhood alive? Hell, of course not, you dumb fuck!

    Don't go around butchering ASL and advertise it as the genuine article to the hearing world.
    We deaf people are very protective of our heritage and culture; and ASL is a integral part of this. You think you can walk out of this unscathed?

    You're a fool, Mark. Drop this, apologize and clean up your video or take it down.

    Or you'll face an uphill battle that you won't win, You fucking audist twit from hell.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Okay, so as a hearing person, who knows absolutely no ASL, but finds Mark's videos interesting and entertaining, I'm actually really curious what you think of his other videos...

    Everyone seems to be continuously attacking Mark (the person, not this particular video) as a sloppy signer, with no respect for the language, but have you watched his other videos besides this one? I'm interested and curious to know if they are understandable. For instance, his most popular video is his cover of Stereo Hearts. Does he do a good job signing and staying true to the language in that song?

    Here's the link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznDKVwH0EI

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Frankly, no. Only few signs are understandable, but for the most part, I cannot understand his music video.

      To understand a ASL music video isn't just to understand ASL but also to be able to absorb and muse on the meaning of music video itself.

      It's like writing a story in broken English, you might understand some words, but the moral of the story is lost in the sea of broken English words and sentences. That is exactly what the Deaf community is trying to explain on Mark Nakhla's most recent ASL music video.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous, I took your link and visited that video clip -- it is not bad, I barely can catch some signs, but not all. I'm not sure but I noticed the *pattern* of Mark's signings. He often came up with homemade gestures and try to incorporate into ASL -- rendering it unreadable for many like myself, u know?

      R-

      Delete
    3. are you hearing or hear the sounds of that song? if so, i am out of league and do not consider it as an art at all. not my type.

      Delete
  46. Frankly, no. Only few signs are understandable, but for the most part, I cannot understand his music video.

    To understand a ASL music video isn't just to understand ASL but also to be able to absorb and muse on the meaning of music video itself.

    It's like writing a story in broken English, you might understand some words, but the moral of the story is lost in the sea of broken English words and sentences. That is exactly what the Deaf community is trying to explain on Mark Nakhla's most recent ASL music video.

    ReplyDelete
  47. What bugs me about Mark's "signing", even if it is sign language.

    I'm a fluent signer, in both PSE and ASL. I can easily understand many signing styles after having been able to process them firsthand for a length of time. The same goes for my ability to assess and read most of the written words in foreign languages, but that's not relevant to the issue at hand.

    Mark claims it's ASL; however it's obvious to the Deaf ASL community that it is not so. I agree with that.

    It's NOT ASL, granted - which peeves me that Mark advertises it as being such. Instead, he seems to be using a signing style with handshapes, expressions, and bodyshape that is distinct to the Asian or Middle Eastern region.

    I'm no fucking expert on foreign sign languages, but I got a good eye for the written or signed language, regardless of its origin. Just call it an uncanny ability of mine.

    Mark, you fucking ass - confess! What part of the world did that sign style of yours come from? And for god's friggin' sake, stop claiming it's ASL!

    ReplyDelete
  48. BTW, I cross-referenced several Asian, Indian, and Nepalese sign videos on youtube.

    Guess what, Marky-boy? Your style is very close to them in general. You fucking liar - stop stating that it's "ASL" that you're using!

    Here's a tip: tell the truth about what sign language it is, instead of lying flat out that it's ASL.

    You'll win a lot more respect that way in the Deaf/ASL community. Take it from a guy who's rooted in that community. Okay...? ;)

    ReplyDelete
  49. Oh wow. I kept steer of this subject, except for a few comments under one FB status. First, I acknowledge I did NOT watch all of the video (2 videos, the one with Natalie P and this one) so I am not the best person to leave any comment, as well as being "music deaf", meaning I lack an innate appreciation of any kind of music. I usually feel disconnected everytime when I watch anyone signing songs. I daydreamed a lot in any deaf churches during the songs; does not click for me.

    So I won't say anything about Mark or whatever. But I respect anyone who enjoys listening to music. Good. My kids LOVE music... but they RARELY sign when they listen to music; instead they use voice. They say it's almost impossible to sign the songs in ASL... best they could sign is in SEE or PEE.

    Again, as I said before, I am a wrong person to leave any kind of comments on this subject about music cuz it's not my thing. No offense to anyone who loves music.

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  50. Karen, people often wonder if ASL poetry can translate to English,Some feel that some meaning would be lost in English and it is best to keep it in ASL.

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  51. That, Anonymous. Best to keep languages separate. That's why my kids usually refuse to sign songs in ASL, cuz it does not sound right to them.

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  52. e)

    oh no, it's not directed at you. after you saw the video, you immediately understood why the culturally deaf people are upset. i appreciate you sharing your views. MZ

    ReplyDelete
  53. Karen Mayes, I dare you to watch the whole thing -- especially the one with "No Church In The Wild" video clip. When you're done with it, be sure to let me know whether if you true biz understood Mark and others' so-called ASL -- I think you'll find it amusing and baffling as well as I did.

    R-

    ReplyDelete
  54. I watched it. Did not get it at all. I duly wrote down the signs that I understood...11 signs (God, always, Jesus, Prince, work, smoke pot, wrong, last night, one, two, and die.) The one that I easily understood was the smoking pot sign. But no connection for me at all. Yes, I turned the captions off. When my kids came home from school several minutes ago, I asked them to watch it. David looked at me and shook his head, he did not get it. Elizabeth asked if it was other language. I said no, that the video claimed it was ASL. They said no, no.

    Hence, the music video did not click at all for me nor for my kids, especially when there was no cohesion among the signs. I felt the same way as I did in the deaf churches... lost, ha.

    There you go, R.

    ReplyDelete
  55. I am posting a few links with a few hearies singing songs in ASL that I UNDERSTAND. Hope Mark would finally understand why one must be fully fluent in ASL and be able to master the bridging between ASL and English. Here are a few links:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUOXSNh9mzk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUOXSNh9mzk

    That's a start.

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  56. The bottom line is that the hearies take their time to study ASL and to honor it. It's not an easy feat.

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  57. Karen, when they signed "smoking pot" -- the caption reads: smoke.

    Totally wrong & misleading.

    R-

    ReplyDelete
  58. Oh, I thought it was "smoking pot"... did not turn on the captions at all, ha.

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  59. To Anonymous April 19 at 9:23 pm. In response to your question re: Mark's other video.... here's the response I left under that video: "

    I'll be honest, you're mangling ASL to the point that it's incomprehensible. If you want to see ASL well-used by a singer, please view Signmark. THAT would help you. If people want to learn ASL, it is best to go to native ASL people for that. Would you learn Spanish from someone who only learned to speak Spanish for two years... and badly at that...or from a native Spanish speaker? "

    What concerns me is that people are telling him they are learning ASL from him. THAT is scary... and offensive!

    I understood Mark in that video slightly better than I understood the Church video. WHOA! THAT IS NOT ASL.

    He is most definitely NOT showing respect to ASL as a language nor us.

    "ASL is not YOUR language. you are simply USERS of the language. It does not belong to you. PERIOD. "

    What sheer nonsense.

    That's like telling Hearing anglophones " English is not YOUR language. You are simply USERS of the language. It does not belong to you. PERIOD."

    *slapping my forehead*. *face palm*

    ASL is OUR language, and when it is being dissed, we have every right to be offended.
    Verstehen sie? Comprendo, amigo? Comprendez-vous? Capisce?

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  60. Another hearing ASL song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ1aSQwBZ24&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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  61. Dawn, you should link HuffingtonPost as well on your blog so others can see.

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  62. I am a poor ASL user: I am hard of hearing & slowly going deaf. And when I see a controversy like this, often, unfortunately, it is because native ASL users will forgive almost any laziness from born users, but not from people like me, who are learning. If you see someone who is lame at ASL, it does not automatically mean we are making fun of "your" language. I ADORE ASL. The grace & beauty of it is astounding. I speak Carny, some Spanish, a little Latin, I understand Italian well enough to not need the supertitles at the opera house, & yet--The presumption is that hearing people are mocking ASL. How is this fair? Especially when I watch plenty of videos which present hearing people as stupid jerks without manners or any effort given to honor ASL or the deaf community. Isn't that unfair to the hearing community, this innate notion that we are that stupid & insensitive?
    This bigotry is hurting both of our communities.
    However, having watched the video in question, I agree-it's gibberish. And there IS a certain element of extremely lazy stupid people who think if they just act like they are playing charades deaf people will automatically magically understand them. No, they do NOT respect ASL. No they do not understand that it's not just English, only with hands, nor do they listen when it's explained to them. But what I would like you to understand, is that these people do not respect English, either. It's not just ASL, it's everything, it's their entire lives. Also, personally speaking, it's extremely terrible music, the video as a whole sucks & I want to shake them. It's offensive, degrades our relations & re-enforces negative stereotypes from both communities. Things like this also really harm people like me, someone who is transitioning from one world into another, because I automatically get treated like a jerk (or stupid) when it's learned that I'm partial hearing. And it hurts. A lot.
    That video may be complete crap, but it does NOT represent the majority of hearing peoples attitudes or perceptions, most of whom hold ASL in awe for it's complexity & beauty.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Hi!!! Wow... what a long reply ... gee.... I have noticed one thing.. first of all let me tell you I am deaf, born deaf, learned to speak first but I learned to sign at 4 yrs old and thru my life. I am soon 37... have a son .... I am in music... I have taught sign langage many times and I love it.... I saw this through fb friend on my wall posted a link to Harold's on youtube and had to check out Mark's. 2 years here is like 2nd level of learning sign language class... some do learn really fast... others takes forever which is fine it is up to people if they really want to learn or not. Those 2... without being so rude.... I want to say many things but without being rude I would say..... blindly like some people.... think they know ASL when in fact they need more time to learn ASL. I wonder who is their ASL teacher that taught them *coughs* ASL.... would he or she see this video of them and approve? Because I would be embarassed to know if they were my students. Big time. I am sorry Mark and your buddy. For some of the deafies that are confused about how they did their song interpretation in ASL.... Either they are not educated well.... or they are just like them only 2 years of sign language and lack of understanding reality perhaps wanting attention since ... I don't know for whatever reason there is... err.... ASL is beautiful language when used CORRECTLY.... even PSE or SEE.... it is up to you whatever you want to sign... I can perfectly sign SEE... I can do PSE and I can do ASL aswell.... Fluently... hmmm.... I don't know howcome they thought they can sign... that well... because it shows they could not whatsoever. LOL OMgosh!!! Embarassing big time... and they are proud? Oh gosh.... ok maybe they were trying to do a make up home made sign?? I don't know but for sure I know it is not ASL... it is not PSE... not ASL... only two that was CLEAR signed was.... like you said... "MUSIC" and "POT" those 2 signs are like the very beginning of learning sign language.. maybe that is their REAL level... not 2 years.. because I can't believe that for one sec they took 2 years of studying Sign language.... hmmm Mark and your buddy... not trying to be rude but blunt so forgive me for being blunt... and for those that are wondering what's wrong with their music.. well... I got to say this... either you are caught up by the scenery of their movie made.... or you do not know sign language enough to understand the difference. I am going to personally TRY and get someone to sign the BETTER version and give people this attention of the CORRECT one.... when I do.. I will come back and post here the correct video if that's ok with you Dawn?? If not I will post on my youtube acct. It's ok I respect your wish... but you are right Dawn.... that was an embarassment video they made. Unbelieveable and I will surely make noises aswell about it. Thanks to Harold for bringing up the ruckus and thank you Dawn for your comments!! We got to band together even though I am Canadian and your Americans we sign the same mostly :) At least I know that much haha. :) Thanks again for your blog here! Mouse

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  64. I am with you, Kye, and others who are hurtful. Just ignore Dawn's remarks. Clearly she doesn't have a loving heart. I saw the video myself and it's not ASL but if I were her, I'd help out with suggestions for improvements, instead of insulting.

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  65. the video says this!!
    Disclaimer: We are hearing college students that have taken 2 years of ASL. This video combines sign and dancing in order to creatively express the song in a new manner.***
    CREATIVELY EXPRESS THE SONG IN A NEW MANNER!!!!

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